Eddie Bravo/10th Planet Jiu Jitsu

[Francis]

Hey guys :)

What do you think of Eddie Bravo/10th Planet Jiu Jitsu?

I've been trying to learn about BJJ recently and Eddie Bravo seems to keep popping up. What do you guys think of his system/style?

The techniques seem to be pretty sound, but I can't really find any champions that his system produced.

As far as I can tell, the 10th planet system hasn't produced anyone who won a top no-gi grappling tournament. (ADCC, Panam, Grappler's Quest, NAGA, Mundials)

This seems suspicious to me because unlike most BJJ schools, Eddie Bravo's system focuses exclusively on no-gi technique. Even Eddie himself, I don't think has gotten a major win.

The only guy I know in MMA who's been winning using 10thpjj stuff is Shinya Aoki. As awesome as he is at BJJ, I don't think he's successfully used it on an opponent who was even a BJJ brown belt.

But I don't really know anything about BJJ at all. What do you guys think?

[Grabaka]

He has some good stuff, but I can't stand the names he uses like "crackhead control", "chill dawg", etc. It's better to go the fundamentals route, like Roger Gracie uses. It seems to work for him. :)

[NDshotokan]

Hey guys :)

What do you think of Eddie Bravo/10th Planet Jiu Jitsu?

I've been trying to learn about BJJ recently and Eddie Bravo seems to keep popping up. What do you guys think of his system/style?

The techniques seem to be pretty sound, but I can't really find any champions that his system produced.

As far as I can tell, the 10th planet system hasn't produced anyone who won a top no-gi grappling tournament. (ADCC, Panam, Grappler's Quest, NAGA, Mundials)

This seems suspicious to me because unlike most BJJ schools, Eddie Bravo's system focuses exclusively on no-gi technique. Even Eddie himself, I don't think has gotten a major win.

The only guy I know in MMA who's been winning using 10thpjj stuff is Shinya Aoki. As awesome as he is at BJJ, I don't think he's successfully used it on an opponent who was even a BJJ brown belt.

But I don't really know anything about BJJ at all. What do you guys think?


I feel much the same as you do. He's a little odd, but his no-gi stuff is actually pretty good. I would agree with G in that you're probably better off with a normal BJJ regimen. Good sound basics, just as Helio intended.

That doesn't mean his stuff doesn't work, even in the MMA world, cause it does (or can anyway). (Side note, isn't George Soteropololiielkdpis a 10th planet guy?). Eddie proved his prowess with a huge win via Triangle Choke over Royler Gracie at the 2003 Abu Dhabi's as a brown belt. He didn't compete much after that. Most of his cometition success is attributed to his aggressive half guard and his 'twister' move. His other 'positions' followed his competition success, as far as I know.

There isn't a whole bunch of guys successful with his stuff. Mostly no-namers. I don't know the reason... maybe it's the system. I'm not really sure.

Like I (and G) said, stick with the basics. Find a good reputable BJJ school and work from there.

[prophet665]

This win was a BFD. Turn down your speakers if you don't like the song So What from Ministry.

YouTube- Eddie Bravo vs Royler Gracie (entire match) ADCC 2003

[Francis]

He has some good stuff, but I can't stand the names he uses like "crackhead control", "chill dawg", etc. It's better to go the fundamentals route, like Roger Gracie uses. It seems to work for him. :)

Yeah hahah :) I totally agree with you. I really like that he has very specific names for each move, and some of them are good at describing the move in a way you'd remember them. (Like the zombie)

But yeah, I would hate referring to a move as "the douchebag" in polite company.

[Francis]

Side note, isn't George Soteropololiielkdpis a 10th planet guy?).

Funny you should mention Sotirefjavioejlopopolopolis. The guy actually lives not too far from where I do (Portland OR), and I've been looking at one of the gyms he trains BJJ at. [Only registered and activated users can see links] George has visited Eddie's gym, but IIRC in an interview George said that he thought it was a good system, but didn't feel comfortable enough with it (at that point) to include it as part of his regular BJJ game.

Eddie proved his prowess with a huge win via Triangle Choke over Royler Gracie at the 2003 Abu Dhabi's as a brown belt. He didn't compete much after that.

Yah, I watched that fight - and prophet just posted it :)

I mean, I don't pretend to know what's what in BJJ, but the whole thing screams to me of "lucky win".

The way I see it:
- Eddie was down on points until the triangle at the very end.
- The way he won was using traditional BJJ, not 10thPJJ-ish stuff
- It wasn't the most sophisticated move - I mean, it's been done a zillion times, and it looks like Royler just made a split-second mistake that Eddie was able to capitalize on.
- Eddie lost the rest of the tournament, didn't even medal.
- Never won a major tournament, before or since.

I mean, if Eddie and Royler were to fight 10 times, I see Royler winning it 8.

Don't get me wrong, I actually do like Eddie Bravo and I'm not trying to hate on him. But it really seems the case of a guy making a whole career beating one guy, one time, because of a split-second mistake.

But to get back to the main point, I'm more interested in 10thpjj more than Eddie Bravo. I'd be more convinced the system is effective if the 10thpjj system produced a champion more than if Eddie Bravo won a major tournament.

[NDshotokan]

I agree with everything you said man. It seems that you and I have the same outlook on 10th Planet. I have nothing against them, it's just not my cup of tea as a primary school of study.

Although, I do really like Brandon Quick. His DVD series 'Fade To Black' is really, really good. My d'arce improved by a factor of one million after watching that video.

As for Eddie at Abu Dhabi, I agree that it was a bit 'lucky'. He's obviously very talented, that's for sure. But, like you said, until champions are coming from that camp I'll always be suspicious of the system.

[prophet665]

How much luck is it to have Roller's posture broken down with his left leg and left arm and to have wrist control on Roller's right arm enough to throw it wide to allow his right leg to cinch up the triangle? To me, that is all skill.

I am not a big 10th Planet guy, but that move was freakin' brilliant.

[Grabaka]

^I think you mean Royler, and yes that was a huge win. Eddie hasn't really had any other huge wins besides that, though. If you look at all the major grappling tourney's it always Alliance, Gracie Barra and other Gracie academies at the top of the standings. Fundamentals over flashy moves all day. His stuff looks cool though, no doubt.

[Francis]

How much luck is it to have Roller's posture broken down with his left leg and left arm and to have wrist control on Roller's right arm enough to throw it wide to allow his right leg to cinch up the triangle? To me, that is all skill.

I am not a big 10th Planet guy, but that move was freakin' brilliant.

Maybe I don't understand BJJ enough to appreciate genius of this. To me, it looks more textbook than brilliant.

If you're in your opponent's guard, he has single wrist control and he starts pushing your arm back, what move is he setting you up for? Obviously the triangle.

To my uneducated eyes, it seems that Royler made the mental mistake of letting Bravo have wrist control, and letting him use it to control his arm like that.

[prophet665]

Maybe I don't understand BJJ enough to appreciate genius of this. To me, it looks more textbook than brilliant.

If you're in your opponent's guard, he has single wrist control and he starts pushing your arm back, what move is he setting you up for? Obviously the triangle.

To my uneducated eyes, it seems that Royler made the mental mistake of letting Bravo have wrist control, and letting him use it to control his arm like that.

There are BJJ on this board that have forgotten more technique than I will ever learn and they could offer a better view, but what makes this impressive to me are these two things:
1. Royler was locked down for a long time and could not pass Bravo's guard and when he finally did get out of the guard he couldn't establish a controlling position.
2. Royler made a split second, small mistake and Bravo recognized it immediately and capitalized on it.

Maybe I am overly impressed for no reason, but I find it damn impressive that this match didn't go to points which is where I thought it was going to go based on the early parts of the fight.

[kdta]

I think anyone who can refine their techniques has merits, however, I don't know the 10PJJ system well enough to critique it. As for EB winning against RG was his ticket to fame. As a JJ Machado black belt, I don't think he's a pushover and you have to respect that. Whether or not EB and Royler will meet again in the competition arena will really decide on the contention of EB's win. In my books a win is a win but for many it seems they are unsatisfied with that and want a consistent win across the board. I doubt that will happen because all athletes professional or otherwise will have their off days as well as their great days. It's the total career that should be considered too no?

[Francis]

As for EB winning against RG was his ticket to fame. As a JJ Machado black belt, I don't think he's a pushover and you have to respect that.

Oh, I do respect Bravo. 10thpjj is a really fascinating system. Since it devotes all its effort to no-gi techniques, it stands to reason that it should be more effective than traditional BJJ in no-gi grappling contests. But when I look at the big no-gi tournaments, 10pjj doesn't come out on top, and I just wanted to know why.

Anyways, we were talking about genius BJJ moves, and I saw this one video, it struck me as a really slick twister finish.

Skip to 2:30 on the restart from back control.

YouTube- ‪TWISTER Submission: $1,000 Absolute Josh Hinger vs Eric Buck at Grapplers Quest at UFC Vegas 2010‬‎

So Hinger has the guy's back, he's defending with both hands tight against his throat. Instead of even trying to go for the RNC, he surprises him by switching from the back to the truck and setting up the twister. But how do you get the guy's hand, when it's tight against his neck from defending the RNC? Easy, Hinger goes for the banana split, and when the guy reaches out to defend that, get wrist control to finish with the twister. To me, that looks genius :)

[kdta]

Sorry can't see your link :(

Yes no doubt 10PJJ is innovative and highly creative and I don't know why their team isn't ranked as highly as the more traditional BJJ players. Maybe it's just a numbers game?

[eyeneversleep]

He has some good stuff, but I feel he and his teachings are way over hyped by all these 10th planet fan boys.

[brvheart]

No one can doubt that he plays a mean game, but you have to be flexible etc to pull off most of it. Not sure that it is over hyped though - you could say that about just about any of the fan boys at different gyms. Gracie academy included in that.

[bonzai]

Agreed. I think there are just as many fanboys about the Gracie Barra's as there are for 10th planet--more so actually.

I think the system is a very small part of it--it's all about your teacher and training partners. Like Bruce Lee said:

""Use only that which works, and take it from any place you can find it"

Both systems have good techniques, but ultimately it comes down to the teacher.

[Romero79]

Bravo is definitely a beast