Kimbo Tapped...?

[Bernie]

Did anyone else see this when he was caught in a guillotine?

YouTube - Is EliteXC Fixing Fights?

I thought I saw this but was giving the ref the benefit of the doubt.

What do you think?

[OMNIpotus]

Good call, Bernie. I didn't watch the show, but you weren't the only one to question it.

Yahoo! ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

NEWARK, N.J. – The closest Kimbo Slice came to providing the type of street beatdown that marked his rise to YouTube infamy happened during Saturday nights’s Elite XC post-fight press conference.

The hyped heavyweight street king from Miami struggled with James “Colossus” Thompson before putting him away in the third round of the main event of the first prime-time network mixed martial arts card.

And fellow fighter Brett Rogers wasn’t impressed. “I gotta be real,” said the unbeaten heavyweight. “I thought you tapped.”

Kimbo shot up out of his seat and said “that sounds like a challenge,” giving Rogers his trademark glare. A couple dozen people got in between the two fighters before the two could brawl backyard style.

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Slice’s posse spent the next several minutes staring at Rogers, but Rogers wasn’t the only person raising questions after Slice took some time to beat his British opponent, who came into the night a loser in five of his seven previous fights.

In the end, Kimbo gave the announced crowd of 8,033 at the Prudential Center what it came to see, delivering an early third-round TKO that would have been a knockout had it gone on another 20 seconds.

“It was a tough-*** fight,” said Slice. “I never underesimtated James. He used his weight well, had a good little minute it on the ground. He had a good little ground and pound.”

But how did it look to the viewers at home? Kimbo’s buzz had largely been fueled by the clips of his YouTube fights, where he had mainly crushed unsuspecting rubes in a matter of seconds. Saturday night’s promotion heavily leaned on Slice, leading viewers to believe another quick KO was on the way.

“We’ve put a tremendous burden on Kimbo Slice,” said Elite XC promoter Gary Shaw. “We’ve set the bar so high that anything other than a tremendous performance is going to seem like a letdown.”

The hardcore mixed martial arts fan might be able to appreciate some noticeable improvements in Slice’s game. He demonstrated the basics of ground defense, such as the time he kicked Thompson off in order to scramble to his feet in the first round. And he also took the feet to the ground and went for a guillotine submission.

Near the end of the second round, Thompson got Slice in trouble on the ground. The Manchester, England native pinned Slice on the ground, isolated his arms, and began raining down elbows, with Kimbo getting saved by the end of the round. But Rogers, and several readers chiming in on our MMA experts blog, felt Kimbo tapped, something he vigorously denied after the fact.

“Not one time did I tap,” said Slice. “I didn’t make any gesture of tapping. If he got me into a submission, he would have had to break something, because tapping isn’t in my repertoire.”

The judges weren’t sure how to take the fight, as one scored the second round 10-8 Thompson while another scored it 10-9 Slice.

If experts can’t figure out what to make of what they’re seeing, then the casual fan at home must have been wondering what the fuss was about.

“It’s not about me,” said Slice. “I can take a little ground and pounding, I won’t be tapping out from that. I’m still a baby at the game, I’ve got a lot of room to grow. I won’t be smoking as much, because I’ve got a lot of training to do.”

The Kimbo show was the main event of a mixed bag of action in the network prime-time debut, which included Gina Carano’s fantastic win over Kaitlin Young in the fight of the night.

But the New Jersey State Athletic Control Board, which oversaw the event, had a lightning-quick trigger finger on fight stoppages, apparently not wanting to let unpalatable scenes play out on network TV.

Both Rogers’ win over Jon Murphy and Joe Villasenor’s TKO of Phil Baroni were stopped as soon as the fight hit the ground. Robbie Lawler’s no contest against Scott Smith in the middleweight title fight was stopped right at the moment a methodical match was beginning to turn into a dramatic struggle.

“For TV, we had a bit of everything, we had blood, we had intrigue, we had some controversy,” said Shaw. “We had a little bit of everything. … I never wanted this fight to end.”

The pacing of the show suggest the promotion needs to work out the kinks before their second broadcast. CBS viewers got less than nine minutes of action over the first hour and a half of the broadcast. The show also ran more than 45 minutes over its allotted time, no doubt sending network station affiliate general managers into apoplectic fits as they waited to cut to their local news. Such an overage would be unheard of on an Ultimate Fighting Championship telecast.

The broadcast was well into overtime when Kimbo kicked his game up another gear. He clobbered Thompson with a big right hand in his first strike of the final round, opening a gusher on the Brit’s left ear. Kimbo went in for the kill and rocked Thompson with his big fists. The referee stopped it before things got out of hand.

“I’m disappointed,” said the affable Thompson (14-9). “I thought I had a great chance. I thought I deserved it. I don’t blame people for asking why I was in here getting this fight. I just want to entertain, I’m an MMA fighter.”

Was it entertaining enough for the casual viewer to turn in a second time? “That is up to the fans to answer,” Slice said. “I think I did alright. They saw me go for a few things and succeed. They saw a good fight, that’s what its about.”

His promoter, however, didn’t wait for the fans to answer. “Kimbo pulled it out,” said Shaw. “He did what he had to do, I still believe he’s a superstar, I haven’t changed my opinion one bit.”

[baba]

The video nailed everything I was thinking last night as I watched. It was ridiculous. A stand-up from side control was worse than the "ooops camera zoom out what tap? we didin't show, i mean didn't see a tap".

Complete BS, and when Kimbo gets called out on it at the post fight press conference, his little army of street thugs glares at the guy like they'll shoot him in the back as he sleeps, cause thats how we thugs roll yo.

Kimbo is a joke and a detriment to MMA. I only hope this crap put on by CBS (emphasis on BS) doesn't detract from the rest of the MMA orgs and athletes that are actually puttng forth an effort. Sorry Bas, find another prop to plug your gym.

[rightcrosslefthook]

Thanks Bernie, +Rep for the video. They wanted Kimbo to win so they refereed the fight to make it happen. I am not a conspiracy theorist in any way but, that fight was total BS.

[Bernie]

I agree guys. Something was a little fishy about that. It seemed like he tapped to me. James Thompson was pretty convinced of it as well.

Oh well... Gina/Kaitlin and Robby Lawler's fight were the highlights for me anyways. But I feel that James was a little robbed on that one.

[brvheart]

nice call Bernie!

[Nos19]

I didn't even catch it the tap until I read about it and saw this video now. I thought the fight was over when Thompson started dropping elbows.

I've lost all respect for Gary Shaw and Pro Elite. I didn't have much respect for them before and now it is much less.

If Gary Shaw thinks he can pull this kind of crap for the mainstream, he's wrong.

[keithpas]

I saw that tap when I watched the fight. Eventully Kimbo will face a serious HW and there will be no manipulations that will save him and his band of criminals (Bas is not amongst them) can take their freak show back to the internet.

[Boo]

Hummm, I've heard that it was a signal to the ref that he was OK. That's coming from several long time fans that recorded the event and went back and took another look. You guys may want to wait and see what another angle shows us.

[Bernie]

^ If that's the case he may want to use a thumbs-up vs. a tap to signal that he's ok! ;) :D

[keithpas]

Hummm, I've heard that it was a signal to the ref that he was OK. That's coming from several long time fans that recorded the event and went back and took another look. You guys may want to wait and see what another angle shows us.


I am not going to doubt him if he said he was signaling to his corner that he was ok. I will second B ernie's thought that the thumbs up sign works better that any kind of tapping motion in an MMA fight.

BTW I never even saw Gina Carano until this past Saturday. Now I know who the babe in your avatar is.:)

[Freestyler]

He may have been signaling, but what about the stand up from side control, while getting punched? What about the one minute+ getting maulled on his back, without the ref even saying a word? Then Thompson is still on his feet and the ref calls it? I am not saying Kimbo was in on a fix, and I hope this was just a mistake on the refs part. But if this was a fix and it gets out, imagine what it will do to MMA. I just don't know how to look at this. Someone had stated that Kimbo will one day face a true HW and then he will see what it is really like, but what does that do for Thompson and his "loss"?

[keithpas]

I agree 100% Freestyler, but Thompson's eyes were rolling around in his sockets every time Kimbo punched him in the face or the head. I could understand why the ref would get a little nervous about the possibilty of someone dying in the ring during one of his fights and stopping it early. Thompson showed some real heart and that impressed me. His glass jaw did not impress me and that God awful looking cauliflower ear sorted of impressed me in that it was flopping around like a water balloon every time he was punched. Couldn't he have gotten that thing lanced or something before the fight? It was so repulsive it was funny.
Kimbo will face a more technically qualified MMA HW at some point and then the real story will come out. He, at least, admits he needs alot of work. I give the guy alot of credit for working his butt off training and trying to prepare for his fights. No one looks like he does by accident.

[baba]

In all fairness...Thompson's eyes roll into his skull just walking to the ring. I get nervous every time I see the guy .... like his head might spontaneously explode.

[Boo]

^ If that's the case he may want to use a thumbs-up vs. a tap to signal that he's ok! ;) :D

I'm just passing on what I heard. I don't know what they saw, but they seemed pretty sure. They also mentioned something about one of the commentators saying at the same time that he was signaling. That makes me think they were seeing something the audience wasn't. It wouldn't be the first time. The opposite happens too. As soon as I can get the stinking fight downloaded I will look for myself. My DVR cut out after the Lawler/Smith fight. Till then, I'm keeping an open mind.

As much talk as there has been about the poor reffing in this fight, I'm really curious. The reffing in the rest of the show looked solid.

[Boo]

I thought I'd follow up on this if anyone is still interested.

I watched the latest episode of "Inside MMA" on HDNET yesterday. They showed a video of the three "questionable" parts of the fight and also had a short interview with the ref.

The "tap" from the refs view was clearly a thumbs up. I don't see any way it could be mistaken for a tap. I'm assuming that viewed from the opposite side of the cage it may have looked like a tap.

As for Thompson's ground and pound. The ref inferred that if Thompson had some more energy in him or if he was using the point of the elbow he could have done some serious damage....he said he was ready for Thompson to start dropping some bombs and it just didn't happen. After looking at it from the refs perspective the strikes were pretty weak looking. BUT, I have seen a lot of fights stopped even when the strikes were pretty weak.

When he talked about the stoppage, I'll give you a quote from the ref. "I think it was a barrage of 4 good solid punches, I saw the whites of his eyes come up, I saw him stumble, I saw him drop his hands. I said you know what, this is done, it's over...." He went on to talk about protecting the fighters, knowing he did the right thing, etc.


After watching the clips and hearing what the ref said, I've come to the conclusion that the ground and pound could have gone either way. This ref decided that Kimbo wasn't being hurt/damaged by the strikes. When the fight was actually stopped, imo it could have been allowed to go on for a few more strikes, but it did look like it was over.

I will admit I do tend to give the refs the benefit of the doubt, especially the good ones. They are within a few feet of the fighters and most of the time are seeing and hearing things we don't.

[duran]

I agree 100% Freestyler, but Thompson's eyes were rolling around in his sockets every time Kimbo punched him in the face or the head. I could understand why the ref would get a little nervous about the possibilty of someone dying in the ring during one of his fights and stopping it early. Thompson showed some real heart and that impressed me. His glass jaw did not impress me and that God awful looking cauliflower ear sorted of impressed me in that it was flopping around like a water balloon every time he was punched. Couldn't he have gotten that thing lanced or something before the fight? It was so repulsive it was funny.
Kimbo will face a more technically qualified MMA HW at some point and then the real story will come out. He, at least, admits he needs alot of work. I give the guy alot of credit for working his butt off training and trying to prepare for his fights. No one looks like he does by accident.

It already happened imo. Unfortunately for Gary Shaw and Bas, Kimbo Slice was exposed in this fight. If he had anything going for him against opponents, it was the intimidation or fear factor, and that is gone. You will have both good heavyweights as well as bums lining up to fight him for the notoriety, but Shaw will have him fighting an even "safer" opponent than Thompson in his next fight. Someone like Warpath or a gatekeeper like the Honky Tonk Man...

On another Slice-related issue, a friend of mine has strong suspicions that KS is a lot older than he is marketted as. He was Bob Sapp-exhausted after that fight.

[OMNIpotus]

Well, what can you expect from someone who has a child with the first name of Kevlar? source ([Only registered and activated users can see links]_life)

Wiki has him born in 1974, but it wouldn't be the first time they were wrong. He said something about not being able to smoke as much, so maybe that's the tiredness.

[keithpas]

It already happened imo. Unfortunately for Gary Shaw and Bas, Kimbo Slice was exposed in this fight. If he had anything going for him against opponents, it was the intimidation or fear factor, and that is gone. You will have both good heavyweights as well as bums lining up to fight him for the notoriety, but Shaw will have him fighting an even "safer" opponent than Thompson in his next fight. Someone like Warpath or a gatekeeper like the Honky Tonk Man...


No arguments from me on this one. Good point Duran. Elite obviously wanted to make Kimbo their marquee star in order to create interest in their brand and put bodies in seats. They may have to rethink that stratedgy and just get good fighters instead. Or bring good fighters up.

[duran]

During this show, my buddy called me and commented that Dana White is both laughing and cursing while watching it. This production rode the coat tails of what the UFC created and nurtured, got on a major network, and is now ruining the credibility of the sport. Joey Villasenor, Scott Smith, and Ruthless Robbie are 3 people who gave this show any cred IMO.

I imagined Dana White sitting somewhere with Joe Rogan that night watching those fights over a few beers and making fun of everything. Everytime Gary Shaw appeared on camera, Dana said something like, "Look at that sleazy, fat, S O B with the cheap clothes. Yo, Gary - how many polyesters had to die to make that suit? Hey Gary, the 80's called! They want their haircut back!!! Gary, you look like you are the publisher of Hustler, not a fight promoter! WTF! Rogan, get me another Amstel Light. While you're up, change the channel to M*A*S*H reruns."

How about a Dana White-Gary Shaw matchup in the cage for charity? Some Hollywood celeb as ref. Three 2 minute rounds. Fishhooking allowed. That's major network stuff right there.